My Views on everything since Oxford

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (dave cusaks nose @ April 25 2005,21:44)]well you must be doing something right mate

Like living in the sun maybe?

WS

 

[Guest]

The "Lads" and the "Scarfers" can co-exist, but only if the scarfers feel safe.

I have absolutely no time for bully-boys that attack the first person to disagree with them, and feel its acceptable to make sexual attacks on women (yes, "attacks" - strong words I know, but imagine if that was your Mum/sister/wife who had been touched up or groped). F'f's' grow up/evolve!

Lads who attack opposing scarfers are generally villified. Why? Because there is nothing "honest" or "decent" about it. Those scarfers haven't put themselves forward, as the lads do. Their raison d'etre isn't to have a scrap with a bunch of like minded individuals, but merely and simply to watch a game of footie, and scoff a few pies

For a known lad to have a pop at one of his own scarfers is nothing short of disgraceful. FACT!

There are many reasons why the lads should have their "dances" away from the grounds. But at the same time they have a duty to protect their scarfers. I don't mean to suggest its their "job" or their "role", but if the opposition are mugging off yer scarfers, that makes you look pretty lame IMO. So when one of yer own does it, you look twice as bad.

FV is (sadly, to my mind) almost dead, and incidents such as this only drive those coffin nails in even faster.

---
So then, who's taking poster of Trisha to Grimsby?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 25 2005,22:11)]FV is (sadly, to my mind) almost dead, and incidents such as this only drive those coffin nails in even faster.

It's alive and well in Spain ...

WS

 

[Katecat]

What's FV?

 

[Beefy]

Football Violence?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

What do you think it might stand for, considering the context of the thread?

WS

 

[A loyal supporter]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 25 2005,21:11)]So then, who's taking poster of Trisha to Grimsby?

Very good, FACT!

 

[Katecat]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ April 25 2005,21:23)]What do you think it might stand for, considering the context of the thread?

WS

I was hoping it might not mean that

 

[Stats]

I recon a stint in the slammer for the ginger w*nkers will do em good

Pass the soap big boy!!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 25 2005,21:11)]The "Lads" and the "Scarfers" can co-exist, but only if the scarfers feel safe.

"Lads" being, presumably, another term for "casuals"...

If groups of casuals want to meet up and do their thing together then who am I to stop them? Being a lawyer makes you, perhaps, even more aware than most that the eleventh commandment is "thou shalt not get caught". So if casuals want to meet and fight, so be it.

Let's be under no illusions about Saturday, though. That incident wasn't about a casual standing up for his 'firm'. There was nothing that happened on Saturday that one could have a laugh and a boast about later on in the pub.

Instead, it was the sign of a young man losing the plot. It was a disturbing vision of someone who simply doesn't know how to control himself. If the other guy had said something which upset or annoyed him, then Jr. could have asked the man to accompany him outside.

But instead, he launched into him with a sickening volley of fists... and he did not really give a toss about who got in his way. There were kids and disabled people in the vicinity, but he didn't care.

If someone can behave in such a way as to demonstrate total contempt for the people around him, you end up reaching the conclusion that the only solution for him is to take him out of society for a while. I don't know if a custodial sentence would be right in this situation. Having studied and visited prisons and met prisoners, I'm a firm believer in the adage that prisons are an expensive way of making bad people worse. But society needs to be protected from behaviour like that, so what alternatives are there to a custodial sentence? The only way you could believe that a non-custodial sentence would work would be if they've got some big bastards in the probation service. Since Jr. only understands the language of violence, then he'll probably only learn the language of restraint from someone whom he thinks could match him in the thuggery department.

Oddly, I don't really blame his father for joining in on Saturday - parental instincts do funny things at times. But I do blame his father for the way his son has turned out. And I struggle to know how that might be remedied - for either father or son.

As someone who has always abhorred violence, Saturday was a shocking, horrifying and depressing episode - one which briefly took us back 20 years to a time when our average home gate was less than 1,900 and when fear and hate were the hallmarks of our game.

20 years on, and we are now taking 1,900 when we travel away. Enjoyment and celebration are our trademarks. Meeting the away fans for a pint and a laugh - not a fight - should be what supporting SUFC is all about. And until these two learn that, then irrespective of their previous deeds, they should be kept away.

Thanks for all the posts on here, though. Especially Cockles's, which started this thread off. It has given us all a lot of food for thought. And besides, it's kept my mind off the football - of last Saturday and next Saturday, which is no bad thing at the moment.

Final thought - for the final two weeks of the season, let's all stand together for one another as fans, and let's all unite behind the team. If we work together, we can drive our boys into League One. It's in our hands - let us roar as one on Saturday.

COME ON SOUTHEND.

Matt

 

[Guest]

While Dave Cusack's Nose's original post was an interesting one, I can't agree with it.

I have seen Ginge "at work" many times over the last 20 years - an incident at Mansfield (probably 20 years ago) when it took 3 policemen to eject him springs to mind - probably because it was funny at the time. I was a young lad then with no real responsibilities and you could afford to laugh at that type of thing.

Now, though, I take my 8 year old son to games and, frankly, I don't want him to see what he saw on Saturday! I haven't got much time for all that "we are all Southend" argument because there are times when even the best of friends have a bust up.

There were a lot of kids there on Saturday and they are the future of our club. What we witnessed will do nothing to encourage their parents to carry on bringing them!!

SS

 

[fbm]

I have 2 lads who come to most home games (well, one of them does, anyway). The youngest one is bright, alert, confident and fairly lippy but in a nice way if you know what I mean. He has a sharp wit and is not fazed by the prospect of talking to teenagers or adults. I took him to the 20/20 cricket at Essex last year and he struck up, and held, intelligent conversation with a group of 4 twenty somethings. He was only 10 at the time and I think most of us adults agree that it is quite unusual to hold a lengthy and sensible conversation with one so young. By the end of the match they were talking to him as if he was one of their mates. I am very proud of him.

However, his confidence can have a downside. Unfortunately he has failed to learn when NOT to pipe up... and I have always said that his mouth will get him into trouble.

In a macabre way I wish he had been there last Saturday to witness first hand what a few ill spoken words can result in because kids never listen to you, do they?

Does anyone remember the Japan World Cup and how polite the authorities were? It's very difficult to be angry with someone who shows you respect and courtesy on the outside, even if inside they hate your guts. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, as the saying goes, and we would all do well to learn from that. I personally try to be polite to people I come into contact with. Unfortunately there is an ever growing anti-social element who just seem to bully their way through life generally, ignoring all social decorums and traditions. "I'm alright, sod the rest" would seem to be the maxim.

What goes around comes around... I believe that everyone will at some point get their just desserts in time.

I don't know Jamie but as I have said before I witnessed his obnoxious behaviour in Bristol and also saw him "in action" last Saturday. As Cockles has said, jail is the start of a downward spiral. MtS says, and I agree, that custody makes bad people worse. But what choice is there?

If someone turns on even those close to him over next to nothing, what chance has he got? I fear that one day he will unfortunately pick on the wrong person or people, and it will all end very sadly. When you look at the size of him, it is going to take some mammoth effort to stop him once he is in full flow, and that force is one that may well cause permanent damage or worse. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

It is indeed a shame that people can't just go to football to watch the match. But from comments here it would appear that J isn't a football hooligan but just someone with the shortest imaginable fuse. That is probably more of a problem and I hope for his sake he learns how to control himself.

 

[sufcintheprem]

At risk of ruining it as such, perhaps that should be the final word on the issue?

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ April 25 2005,21:23)]What do you think it might stand for, considering the context of the thread?

WS

Coming from shoebury as i do, it could of ment Family Values

 

[wrongun]

Firstly this is my 1st ever post on this site. I think your text is bang on, however one point I would like to make that I think maybe you didn't is that all the pages and things i have read on this subject by people who seem to have so much to say and slag off the people involved I know that none of them would have the front to mention their views to the said people i.e. Ginger and Jamie. Someone wrote about the trouble they caused over the years etc.. In the same manner as this so called CS Youth if you feel that strongly about it put up or shut up! Tell them you are not happy and voice your opinion, you and i know that will not happen, I like you have had my fair share of problems and that was just hand bags on Saturday. It's only my opinion...

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (wrongun @ April 26 2005,09:49)]Firstly this is my 1st ever post on this site. I think your text is bang on, however one point I would like to make that I think maybe you didn't is that all the pages and things i have read on this subject by people who seem to have so much to say and slag off the people involved I know that none of them would have the front to mention their views to the said people i.e. Ginger and Jamie.

Perhaps because if you do confront them face to face they resort to violence, and me and my mates can vouch that this is exactly how they responded to us a few years ago. Its all very well saying people should talk face to face but its very different when only one side would be prepared to talk. Are you telling me that the non-violent majority on here should risk a beating - because as demonstrated on Saturday that is the risk they run.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (wrongun @ April 26 2005,09:49)]Firstly this is my 1st ever post on this site. I think your text is bang on, however one point I would like to make that I think maybe you didn't is that all the pages and things i have read on this subject by people who seem to have so much to say and slag off the people involved I know that none of them would have the front to mention their views to the said people i.e. Ginger and Jamie. Someone wrote about the trouble they caused over the years etc.. In the same manner as this so called CS Youth if you feel that strongly about it put up or shut up! Tell them you are not happy and voice your opinion, you and i know that will not happen, I like you have had my fair share of problems and that was just hand bags on Saturday. It's only my opinion...

Had a feeling my last post wouldn't be the last.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment of saying stuff to people's face rather than gossiping in quasi-private, I can't see that being any good here.

You know them so answer this. If a complete stranger walked up to one of them, say 'Jamie', and said, "I think you were well out of order at Oxford mate. I can't believe what that guy said was worthy of a beating". What would be the outcome? What possible incentive would there be for anyone on here to do that rather than discuss it in a forum where everyone has right of reply and, as has been shown, there are parties who are prepared to represent them?

 

[wrongun]

Just stated my opinion I know you guys feel that you would not want to front the people involved I completely understand that and yes you would also not get the kind of response from them that you want. I have been going for 28 years now and I have never really seen any severe trouble yes a few tear ups but that it, nothing as bad as what i have seen abroad or at other clubs round the country from the prem to league 2. I was in Germany for the Chelsea game and they say hooliganism is dead bollo*ks !! I'm sure all you guys are a great bunch of lads but lets not get carried away with all this, someone mentioned prison, I find this to be a terrible wish to put on someone for a couple of half hearted punches thrown. It's done it's over let them live with their actions and maybe the club will take action, prison is no joke! Not so much physically but the strain on your family is the worst part.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 25 2005,21:50)]Let's be under no illusions about Saturday, though.  That incident wasn't about a casual standing up for his 'firm'.  There was nothing that happened on Saturday that one could have a laugh and a boast about later on in the pub.

Plenty of people have been involved in FV to a greater or lesser degree over the years but I believe that for the vast majority it's just their testosterone running wild in their late teens / early twenties. Most lads move away from it when they start to get decent jobs, birds responsibilities etc. Let's be honest, once you're doing ok for yourself you don't want to risk everything for a meaningless row in some god forsaken corner of England.

I don't know Ginger personally but he's had a reputation as being one of Southend's main faces since the seventies. He's even been written about in a hooli book published back in the eighties called "We hate humans".
What concerns me about him is that he's doesn't seem to have changed over the years, push the wrong button and he's bang up for it. He's not exactly a great example of restraint to junior who doesn't seem to have much in the way of self control, and who now seems to be desperately trying to emulate his old man.

I'm sure Ginger regrets Saturday's events and both him and his son are going to have to face the consequences of their actions.
In the meantime both Ginge senior & junior both need to take a long hard look at themselves. A bloke in his fifties shouldn't be still rowing at football, end of..! Junior needs to look at where he's heading in life if he continues on his current path. From where I'm standing it ain't anywhere pleasant but it isn't too late to turn it around.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (wrongun @ April 26 2005,10:08)]Just stated my opinion I know you guys feel that you would not want to front the people involved I completely understand that and yes you would also not get the kind of response from them that you want. I have been going for 28 years now and I have never really seen any severe trouble yes a few tear ups but that it, nothing as bad as what i have seen abroad or at other clubs round the country from the prem to league 2. I was in Germany for the Chelsea game and they say hooliganism is dead bollo*ks !! I'm sure all you guys are a great bunch of lads but lets not get carried away with all this, someone mentioned prison, I find this to be a terrible wish to put on someone for a couple of half hearted punches thrown. It's done it's over let them live with their actions and maybe the club will take action, prison is no joke! Not so much physically but the strain on your family is the worst part.

Opinions are what make this board worth reading mate, don't worry!

Never been one to wish prison on someone. Most people, I think seem to be worried as to whether this might happen again and made suggestions that would prevent that. We're all Southend fans and whilst we may not have acquitted ourselves as the guy involved did, it could happen to any of us, potentially.

I always try and maintain a polite stance to people and try and be friendly but that sort of naivety is fading with every time I've been involved in stuff with people who are clearly just spoiling for a fight (although, note, I wasn't involved and was well away, just talking in general). Whether it's this sort of incident or the sort you get while walking down the High St at 2am on a Saturday, it's all going to make you less comfortable in the same situation.