My Views on everything since Oxford

[wrongun]

True.

 

[fbm]

For me one of the more concerning issues that has come out of all this is the growing number who seem to criticise anyone on here for speaking their mind and "hiding behind the keyboards".

No-one in their right mind is going to actually go up to Ginger or Jamie and start criticising them unless they want a fight. And anyway, what does that solve, exactly?

Reasonable dialogue is useless against people who don't want to talk. I for one am fed up with the attitude that just because I (and several others) DARE to speak out on here rather than confront some thug - there is no other suitable word - face to face I am doing something wrong or cowardly.

I personally will not say anything to them because

1) I abhor violence
2) I cannot fight very well anyway and wouldn't have a chance, and
3) I value my teeth.

To be honest, I doubt there is a person on this board who would say anything to them. There may be some who say they would, and who may even believe they would, but confronted in a 2 on 1 situation I bet the words would just not come out.

But then Ginger and Son would lose out with me in a legal argument. They aren't equipped for a contest in that discipline, as neither am I equipped to match them at their speciality. As someone else on here has posted, if someone wants a battle of wits, then come armed.

For me this whole episode has provoked a whole range of emotions and feelings; shock and surprise when it happened, quickly followed by disgust. Sadness then was replaced by interest as the many different views became aired on this board. Cockles was the most thought provoking of the lot and one that has caused me to reconsider everything in a slightly different way. But it has not altered my basic belief that the incident was wrong, that the guilty parties should be punished, and that some serious action needs to be taken to stop it happening again.

I don't want to go and confront people who wish to smash my face in if I dare to open my mouth to them. If I'd wanted to do that I'd have joined the police. But for me, at least, the pen is mightier than the sword.

 

[Firestorm]

Just getting a little concerned that a face covered in blood is a consequence of something being dismissed as a "few half hearted punches" and "handbags"

I too put my hand up and admit that I would not go up to the two protagonists and advise them that they were out of order, because i am too bloody sensible and too poor at scrapping. I can run pretty fast though

I feel that this entire issue is drifting into to several camps. Those who dislike violence and are condeming it ; those who don't mind a bit of a scrap but not with their own supporters and those who realise that they may well have reacted to a lippy stranger in exactly the same way but are trying really hard to justify what happened otherwise they would end up criticising themseves.

Me, I am afraid I take the white feather in all cases except where my family are threatened, then I generally create a distraction (by getting pulped) whilst the familiy gets away...

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ April 26 2005,11:37)]Just getting a little concerned that a face covered in blood is a consequence of something being dismissed as a "few half hearted punches" and "handbags"

I too put my hand up and admit that I would not go up to the two protagonists and advise them that they were out of order, because i am too bloody sensible and too poor at scrapping. I can run pretty fast though  

I feel that this entire issue is drifting into to several camps. Those who dislike violence and are condeming it ; those who don't mind a bit of a scrap but not with their own supporters and those who realise that they may well have reacted to a lippy stranger in exactly the same way but are trying really hard to justify what happened otherwise they would end up criticising themseves.

Me, I am afraid I take the white feather in all cases except where my family are threatened, then I generally create a distraction (by getting pulped) whilst the familiy gets away...

I guess we're both members of the Self Preservation Society then Firestorm.

"You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off..."

Classic.

 

[TrueBlue]

To be honnest this whole subject is getting very dull to me everybody has their opinion and thinks that they are right with theirs, we can all debate till we are blue in the face about this, to be fair some good points have been made but is it not time to put this one to bed?

 

[Jonesy tap-in]

Maybe it's just me, but i found that it to be interesting, well considered and articulated dialogue, from all parties. A quality example of what a good messageboard should be like.

As i've said before, these forums(/fora? plural) exist solely so people can discuss issues. I guess they only really get put to bed when people stop wanting to discuss them.

All i can say is, respect to all.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (dave cusaks nose @ April 25 2005,17:57)]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 25 2005,15:56)]Brilliant (sorry i mean...lol !!), especially the final paragragh (the second gripe bit).........in particular the bit about the Tw*t 'chasing the ten year olds'...........words failed me !!

p.s. I take it he won't be on the guest list for your next birthday night out ??

lol lol lol lol lol
Ill be having a party after the season in 'Bar Bleu' at talk. It will be the week after the final game on a Friday night. Il lget all the chaps out and w'll have a propper dooo even better than the last one also take note, It will be over 21's

anyway lol for now
lolly

You are turning into a lefty poof cockles.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ April 26 2005,12:35)]we can all debate till we are blue in the face about this

But I've paid for the full hour's worth of argument!

No you haven't!

Seriously, though, I think that this and the other threads have been top notch - not least for their cathartic value. Saturday's events didn't just hurt for the bloke who had his teeth rearranged. They hurt for all the fans of Southend United - it was a wounding to us as a collective body to see fans fighting amongst themselves. In time, it will hurt for Ginger and Jamie as well.

The best - indeed, perhaps the only way in this disparate and modern society - way for us to manage and alleviate that hurt is for us to talk about that hurt: to understand why it happened, to work out how to deal with the perpetrators and to rehabilitate them back into the society of SUFC, and to find ways to prevent it happening again. So that's why both of these threads have been necessary and very useful.

As it might have been summed up by that venerable sage, Mr. Bob Hoskins:

It's good to talk.

Think on't, folks.

Matt

 

[Its grim up north!]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 26 2005,14:31)]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ April 26 2005,12:35)]we can all debate till we are blue in the face about this

But I've paid for the full hour's worth of argument!

No you haven't!

Seriously, though, I think that this and the other threads have been top notch - not least for their cathartic value.  Saturday's events didn't just hurt for the bloke who had his teeth rearranged.  They hurt for all the fans of Southend United - it was a wounding to us as a collective body to see fans fighting amongst themselves.  In time, it will hurt for Ginger and Jamie as well.

The best - indeed, perhaps the only way in this disparate and modern society - way for us to manage and alleviate that hurt is for us to talk about that hurt: to understand why it happened, to work out how to deal with the perpetrators and to rehabilitate them back into the society of SUFC, and to find ways to prevent it happening again.  So that's why both of these threads have been necessary and very useful.

As it might have been summed up by that venerable sage, Mr. Bob Hoskins:

It's good to talk.

 

Think on't, folks.

Matt

OS here. Just spoke to my brother (the real owner of this log in) and he's been working in the club shop today. A lot of supporters going in the shop today have been asking what's happening about 'the incident' and that they are writing to the club, expecting action to be taken to ensure this kind of thing is dealt with.

Looks like the events had quite an impact.

 

[Guest]

In reply to all the posts on here i would like to say that i am the bloodied victim of saturdays fight and although i have a sore face i have no serious injury's ( surprising really for two on one) i am not pressing charges against these two men not because i am in fear but because i feel it was a heat of the moment thing that can just be forgotten. I definately hope there is no prison because i really believe that nobody benefits from a custodial sentance. I will continue to go to every southend game and support them all the way.... i hope that people will not stop going to home and away games because of this isolated incident. So good luck to southend and i hope that nothing serious comes from this. I dont for one minute condone violence but i have heard that the dad only came in punching because he saw me and his son fighting and i can understand his reason so no hard feelings and i hope we can all put this behind us...

 

[Guest]

Im glad you can forget it ,but my little boy who was near you when this happend dosnt want to go to watch football anymore ,so i really hope they stop thugs at football.

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 26 2005,18:22)]In reply to all the posts on here i would like to say that i am the bloodied victim of saturdays fight and although i have a sore face i have no serious injury's ( surprising really for two on one) i am not pressing charges against these two men not because i am in fear but because i feel it was a heat of the moment thing that can just be forgotten. I definately hope there is no prison because i really believe that nobody benefits from a custodial sentance. I will continue to go to every southend game and support them all the way.... i hope that people will not stop going to home and away games because of this isolated incident. So good luck to southend and i hope that nothing serious comes from this. I dont for one minute condone violence but i have heard that the dad only came in punching because he saw me and his son fighting and i can understand his reason so no hard feelings and i hope we can all put this behind us...

Good on you.. but why have you not registered?  Why do I feel you are not the person who was assaulted?

Sceptical.

 

[Smudger]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 26 2005,18:22)]In reply to all the posts on here i would like to say that i am the bloodied victim of saturdays fight and although i have a sore face i have no serious injury's ( surprising really for two on one) i am not pressing charges against these two men not because i am in fear but because i feel it was a heat of the moment thing that can just be forgotten. I definately hope there is no prison because i really believe that nobody benefits from a custodial sentance. I will continue to go to every southend game and support them all the way.... i hope that people will not stop going to home and away games because of this isolated incident. So good luck to southend and i hope that nothing serious comes from this. I dont for one minute condone violence but i have heard that the dad only came in punching because he saw me and his son fighting and i can understand his reason so no hard feelings and i hope we can all put this behind us...

Shady post.

 

[Guest]

there is nothing shady about this post i am genuine in what i say. there was something going on in front of us and stupid me decided to voice my opinion. i do think it was over the top nearly having my face smashed to pieces but i am more ****ed off that my favourite southend shirt is just a rag now but its just one of those things...my only passion in life is football- playing and watching. i just learnt an important lesson.......not to get involved with other peoples arguments.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Perhaps someone can explain the phrase "not pressing charges" to me - because it's a phrase that's used a lot, and it's one that I don't understand.

The decision whether or not to prosecute someone is a decision taken jointly by the Police and the Crown Prosecution Service based on whether an offence has been committed, the seriousness of the offence, and the likelihood of a conviction based on the evidence available.

Whilst, of course, the victim of an offence should always be listened to, I do not understand how it is his or her choice as to whether or not a prosecution takes place.

Crimes are not perpetrated merely against victims. A crime is a breach of the laws of society, the laws that bind us all. A crime has clearly been committed here.

Even if the victim doesn't wish to press charges, this event cannot be allowed to repeat itself. If a prosecution did not take place, that would be carte blanche not only to the two individuals concerned, but others like them, to repeat their offence.

I would be astounded and, frankly appalled, if a prosecution did not take place. I say nothing as to the question of a custodial sentence, of course - that is another matter. But there must be a prosecution - that, surely, is unarguable.

Matt

 

[Guest]

Maybe the person who was assualted will not press charges but what has to be remembered was the offence took place inside a football stadium which is outside all the usual laws of this country. In a football stadium you are guilty unless u can prove otherwise and I would have thought those two don't have a leg to stand on as not only was a serious assualt committed in front of 2000 people it would have been captured on CCTV.

I would be amazed if these two avoid a prison sentance. personally I would be delighted if they both get it especially the younger one who is a very nasty bully who is long overdue his come uppance.
What happened on Saturday is the most sickening sight I have seen in 30 years of following Southend. Here we are near the top of the League taking a lot of fans to every away gamse and a lot of them are kids which is great to see. How do you think they feel having to witness that sickening sight? I just hope it hasnt put them off coming to Southend. It has been fantastic seeing the youngsters coming to Southend this year and getting behind the team. They are the future of the club and I hope that two thugs dont put them off coming again.

I just hope the club takes steps and bans these two thugs for life. People like that the club can do without. To bad the Evening Echo didnt have a story on it I was hoping these two thugs would be named and shamed hopefully that is still to come.

 

[Guest]

as to your question "matt the shrimp" the victim of a crime has the choice of whether or not to press charges. however the police will still prosecute and especially because the whole thing was captured on cctv there will more than likely be enough charges to cause a big problem for these two men. They will be prosecuted and so they will not get away with anything. i personally think this is more than enough and i wish none of this had ever happened....

 

[fbm]

The victim in question is not, or certainly at least was not a poster on here prior to Saturday, otherwise he would have surfaced immediately.

I find it hard to believe therefore that someone in their first post makes a reference to "all the posts on here" yet doesn't show any surprise at the level of debate it has caused.

Re the "press charges" bit - the victim would have given a statement and it is not necessarily the victims choice as to whether a prosecution follows or not. However, the CPS are unlikely to run a prosecution where the main witness is reluctant.

However, because it happened in public (i.e. an arena) and was witnessed by many people, and caught on CCTV, if the victim decided to withdraw then I am sure a public order offence would follow (instead of assault). I mean, it's because of this rule that Bowyer and Dyer are being talked to by the Police.

Sorry southendfan - doesn't ring true.

 

[Guest]

I first thought it would be bad if the echo reported these advents that took place at oxford on saturday,but now reading all these threads i think it should have printed the story,I think that a letter off to the echo to ask why it wasnt reported is now over due. and have the farther and son been banned or is this just shrimperzone talk.And as for the victim not to prosecute its a shame because i feel there will be more victims in the future .

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ April 26 2005,19:37)]I first thought it would be bad if the echo reported these advents that took place at oxford on saturday,but now reading all these threads i think it should have printed the story,I think that a letter off to the echo to ask why it wasnt reported is now over due. and have the farther and son been banned or is this just shrimperzone talk.And as for the victim not to prosecute its a shame because i feel there will be more victims in the future .

Maybe there is a media restriction if a prosecution is to follow.

Just a thought.