You've got to hand it to him

[WestRoadShrimper]

The alternative is to stay at Roots Hall, which doesnt either.

So do we take a chance at developing and moving forward or stay, stagnate and be riddled with losses indefinitely?

Thing is, I agree completely. Clearly if we stay at Roots Hall we'll continue to record financial losses like we currently are. It's just that unless the income streams are clearly defined, so that the club itself benefits directly from them and not just the developers, then FF may not be the silver plated solution either.

 

[Beefy]

The thing is that we can't stay at Roots Hall. He don't own Roots Hall because of decisions that were made more than ten years ago. Simply put the only chance we have of continuing as a football club is to move to a new ground.

 

[Firestorm]

3 Some people say that the problems were all inherited. No. Things were not good when he took over ABOUT 12 YEARS AGO, but they stabilised. We broke even, lost small amounts or even went into profit for a few years. (Credit is due for the financial management during that period of stability.) We lost ownership of our major assets to keep the club going when he took over, but that's not why we're losing £2.4m a year NOW - an unsustainable amount of money that has little to do with debts at the end of the Jobson era.

can I just pick up on this point.

I am currently looking at all the accounts since 1995 and on the footballing front we have been making losses for years.

I haven't finished yet but between 1994 and 2004 there was just one year where we made an operating profit , 1995 an operating profit of 1M purely down to 2.9M of transfer fees recieved

The Book profits made in 1996 were solely down to the value of the assets being upped by 1.9M having made an operating loss of 1.17M (these assets later proved to be over valued considering the cash they realised upon sale)

However in 2004 we made our smallest operating loss in 10 years, and this was subsequently bettered in 2005/6 and 7

These lesser operating losses were further underpinned by cash injections which resulted in book profits in 2004.

The debts at the end of the Jobson era were more than the debts at 2007 , the money was being hedged against inflated asset values.

Had these not been sold to realise cash our debts would have been 9.2M by 2004

However the legacy of a (failed) attempt to stay in the championship cost us dearly and the wage bills have failed to reflect the drop in revenues, at current income levels there is little hope of maintaining 2nd teir football and imho RM is aware of this and is attempting to increase our income potential by a number of schemes, personally I can see little in the reasons for the delays in fruition of the schemes which are solely attributable to RM, and the bulk of the comments regarding "failures" have been made with the benefits of hindsight

 

[bazzashrimper]

As I see it (mainly due to firestorms excellent posts) we should probably agree with RM that the problem is cash flow, and not increased debt.

What I don't understand, is why this debt has been "it will be payed off" and is now seemingly "we hope to pay it off". There clearlt was a middle phase here which supporters were not made aware of. Honesty would have helped manage spectator expectations although maybe RM feels not necessarily have benefitted the business. I feel that should it all go boobies vertical then RM needs to give a damn good explanation and will find it difficult to gain trust from all shrimpers.

 

[bilbyboy]

Without all of the 'up market' speel, Ron (open book) Martin and Geof King have told us all blatent lies, they have made us believe in them, now they are asking us to trust them, sorry, i do not trust them, they are proven liars, but, if they get us out of this mess then maybe, just maybe i will trust them, you see i am a fickle fan like most of us are, the only thing i care about is the future of my club, my team, Southend United. UTB

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

can I just pick up on this point.

I am currently looking at all the accounts since 1995 and on the footballing front we have been making losses for years.

I haven't finished yet but between 1994 and 2004 there was just one year where we made an operating profit , 1995 an operating profit of 1M purely down to 2.9M of transfer fees recieved

The Book profits made in 1996 were solely down to the value of the assets being upped by 1.9M having made an operating loss of 1.17M (these assets later proved to be over valued considering the cash they realised upon sale)

However in 2004 we made our smallest operating loss in 10 years, and this was subsequently bettered in 2005/6 and 7

These lesser operating losses were further underpinned by cash injections which resulted in book profits in 2004.

The debts at the end of the Jobson era were more than the debts at 2007 , the money was being hedged against inflated asset values.

Had these not been sold to realise cash our debts would have been 9.2M by 2004

However the legacy of a (failed) attempt to stay in the championship cost us dearly and the wage bills have failed to reflect the drop in revenues, at current income levels there is little hope of maintaining 2nd teir football and imho RM is aware of this and is attempting to increase our income potential by a number of schemes, personally I can see little in the reasons for the delays in fruition of the schemes which are solely attributable to RM, and the bulk of the comments regarding "failures" have been made with the benefits of hindsight

I urge everyone who wants to understand what has been going on at Roots Hall to read this post.

 

[londonblue]

League 2? :(

I think you've got it spot on. Ron is not hugely personally wealthy and nobody can blame him for that. What he can be criticised for is being overly ambitious and trying to go it alone without getting someone else on board. That may well have meant that it was no longer commercially viable for him but going it alone seems to have been a massive gamble with the best of intentions that just has not paid off. Yes, economic circumstance has greatly damaged his prospects but we have been haemorrhaging money for years now and his plan was always going to be precarious for the football club if there were any delays to the project.

But he did have someone else on board, Delancy, and they very nearly had us out of business. RM had to buy them out.

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

But he did have someone else on board, Delancy, and they very nearly had us out of business. RM had to buy them out.

I'd forgotten about that :whistling:

 

[Beefy]

Weren't Delancy the money-men behind the original deal?

 

[mattytheshrimper]

i can't help but think martins giving false hope. hopefully i'm wrong. but how many times have we heard empty promises from him. done what I said though. threw a few big words in there and blamed everyone else but himself. when will he ever admit its him who's at fault.

 

[grassroots]

But he did have someone else on board, Delancy, and they very nearly had us out of business. RM had to buy them out.

I think it was more a case of a rapidly expanding property market (and developement!) and more for me..........and the Club just maybe!!

 

[londonblue]

I think it was more a case of a rapidly expanding property market (and developement!) and more for me..........and the Club just maybe!!

No. I think you'll find that Wagman thought the deal was too long term for him and Delancy, and bailed. He insisted on his money back at something like 10% interest.